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I guess it depends on what your relationship to the necessary shop activities is. Description Genuine 14.5" SOCOM, carbine length gas system barrel from Colt. - The Shooter's Log, 2012 SHOT Show Special Report: Daniel Defense DDM4 V5 in .300 Blackout and a Factory SBR - The Shooter's Log, 2012 SHOT Show Special Report: SOG Armory Predator Rifle - The Shooter's Log, Surefire's 100-Round MAG5-100: The Highest Capacity AR-15 Magazine - The Shooter's Log, Throwback Thursday: Taurus Judge Range Report, ATI Milsport SGA 410 All the Advantages of an AR in .410, Ruger SR1911 LW Commander The Lightweight .45 ACP, Rifle Hack: Sighting for 100 Yards at a Distance of 25 Yards, Throwback Thursday: All About Bullet Grain. The upper I want to rebarrel is modified for Service Rifle competition so it's not quite as cheap as buying another $89 upper from Aero. Would not feed to save its life! April 23, 2014 in Rifle - Technical. You wrote that much to make a point that should have taken about 100 words? Now move move the on deck cartridge forward to the 3/8 of inch position and again note the position of the tip of the bullet in relationship to the barrel extension. Anything else you want to share about M4 clones would be appreciated, especially when it comes to a reliable rifle. Single Action and Double Action Which One Is Better For You? That's an important thing since without the feed ramps, issues can arise when receivers and barrel extensions are mismatched. Full M4 feed ramps start on the upper and continue onto the barrel extension. There are now thousands of upper receivers and ready-to-use barrels that have the cuts of M4 feed ramps. I can still use the combination. Should not be too hard. so it is better to have an upper reciever that's designed for non-m4 feed ramps since you can put in standard barrels right? How long your barrel "lasts" depends on what your accuracy threshold is before you decide it is too bad to keep using. Both. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I will check with compass lake. I've been thinking about doing sort of an "Early Diemaco C8 carbine" clone build with a C7 style upper receiver. Only took a few minutes. Jams and misfires. practical_man Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. If this is your first visit, be sure to The barrel is supposed to have the M4 feed ramps. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. i have an extra brand new M4 barrel extension ramp to replace a rifle ramp. If you have a m4 ramped upper but not barrel you can cause problems as there's a lip of steel barrel extension in the way that can cause feeding problems. Seems counter intuitive to recommend an M4 cut upper, especially if the barrel Im looking at has the rifle feed ramp (not M4 cut). In general, all you need to understand is that the M4 feed ramps include the barrel extension and upper receiver. Don't ever put non M4 ramped barrel on a M4 ramped upper receiver. All things being equal and having used both weapons extensively, Id rather have the feed Ramps. I'd get jams from bullets hitting the back of the upper so I took a small round file and made the M4 ramps in the upper. The trust part is accepting claims of USGI-spec parts actually being done to not only blueprint dimensions, but also made from the correct materials treated to the same processes. The barrel blanks available are made from 416 Stainless Steel. DSA has fat top, Mueller, non feed ramp uppers for $40. If you don't clean it but demand 3/4MOA you might get 1,500. A couple of times I ended up with the OK set up from the picture above. The Shooter's Log, is to provide informationnot opinionsto our customers and the shooting community. I'm a machinist in the aerospace industry and lucky enough to have unrestricted access to a really nice machine shop so the modification from rifle to M4 feed ramps is no sweat, I've done it once before a few years back with a .250" carbide cutter in the mill for a friend and it came out looking indistinguishable from a true M4 extension. All uppers are assembled cleaned and tested before shipping. The ramps are in the barrel extension. Moreover, telling someone that an extension can be modified, while not a lie, is nothing more than mental masturbation when your post contains a caveat for having the knowledge and proper tools. Modern Series Barrels. 1 is a standard and the other for use with m4 feed ramp barrels. 50 bucks one way or the other on the barrel ain't squat! Is getting it as part of the upper better? Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. check out the. I recommend putting any AR-platform firearm together with a matched M4 barrel extension and upper receiver set, just because you can. As suggested, its best to match the upper and barrel extension no worries that way. I will attest that a rifle upper and a barrel with the M4 feedramps works just fine. Looking for a black stripped A1 upper with non m4 feed ramps (just realized the upper I have wont work with my barrel). The barrel Throat is the second most critical component after angles and should be polished with utmost care. Absolutely nothing to do with casing diameter, or whatever other weird sht you guys imagine. There's a 7 degree difference between standard and M4 ramps. Was sort of worried about how it would run with an 11.5" barrel and mismatched ramps, but it sounds like it should be good to go either way. The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! I like all my guns to be reliable. Is it kosher to add M4 feed ramps to a standard upper to match an m4 ramped barrel? . The magazine lips cannot move, so with these larger diameter cartridges, the bullet tips down lower about the centerline of the bore (half of the diameter increase to be exact). Related: If you are using a Ar rifle, best green laser sight is good choice for hunting. The mil actually only specs M4 feed ramps for use in its M4s. You can post now and register later. FFL Fax: 866-721-8691. I put together a second AR9 that is having a feeding issue, even if using similar parts as the first one. The tip of the cartridge rarely comes into contact with the upper receiver. Sent back again. Your email address will not be published. Thank you for answering the question do well. It was in the last few issues of SAR. are all barrels w/ m4 feed ramps?? Full M4 feed ramps are on both the upper and barrel extension. An upper without feed ramps can be used with a barrel that has them as the majority of the ramp is on the barrel extension. However the DD 14.5 are ideally meant to mate up with M4 style upper receiver feedramps. . These Mil-Spec M4 feed ramps are part of the original CNC manufacturing process. It's not worth changing the barrel extension on an already finished barrel, getting the new barrel extension to line up correctly with the gas port will probably cost more in gunsmithing/machining fees than buying a new barrel. The M4 style feed ramps and barrel extension provide consistent feeding and the matte black Manganese Phosphate finish resists external corrosion and oxidation. Does NOT include pin The M4 cut extends down beyond the edge of the barrel extension (has a scalloped appearance), and a correspondingly deeper cut in an M4-spec upper receiver effectively extends the ramps downward (they're lowered). The only other time it seems to help is if the mag is feeding the rounds with the bullet slightly angled lower than normal. It has ran flawlessly (barring tuning of the gasblock when new) with several different brands of magazines and ammo. The best case is to have both an upper and barrel that have the feed ramps. Here you can see an upper with "rifle" feedramps. A4 Complete Upper Receiver - 7075 Forged A4 Flat Top Upper Receiver - M4 Feed Ramps Includes: - Add to Cart. If you consider this article useful, share it with anyone in need! A4 Complete Upper Receiver. One new winner* is announced every week! Questions on how to install your new BA barrel? This USGI modification was done to both the barrel extension and the upper receiver, creating a longer and steeper feed ramp. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. It has 2 ramps cut into the receiver to help the rounds feed into the chamber. Its highly recommended to put any AR-platform firearm together with a matching M4 barrel extension and upper receiver set. They guide the bullet up and into the chamber. Brevity matters. Barrel customizations are also available. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Man, its crazy how many of yall have absolutely no idea why you do what you do. "A Bad Day At The Range Is Better Than A Great Day Working". I don't have much to add re: feed ramps, but. Ballistic Performance of Federal Punch .22 LR Ammunition with the Heritage Barkeep #1063. Thats receivers, bolts, and on down the list of the 100 or so parts that can make up an AR-15. AR9 - Help diagnosing feeding issue. The M4 cut extends down beyond the edge of the barrel extension (has a scalloped appearance), and a correspondingly deeper cut in an M4-spec upper receiver effectively extends the ramps downward (theyre lowered). There's no downside to having M4 feedramps on your carbine, but they are not as necessary without full auto and when using followers that will not tilt (or in a 20 AR15). Clear editor. I recently built an AR9 (Glock Mags) that has been running flawlessly for about 3-400rds. The rifle-platform M16s dont use them. It's near impossible to replace the carry handle upper I have these days, and finding a colt chrome lined 20" light weight barrel isn't a walk in the park either. On AR9's, I understand the distance between the Mag Follower and the Feed Ramp is a known complication in the design. colt A1E1 733 uppers didn't have extended carbine feedramps ? The barrels also had to be modified. These units actually feature the NON-F-Marked (correct) front sight base. M4 feed ramps will extend the barrel extension and the upper receiver. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Amazing what happens in a thread over a simple question. I've thought about it myself, and I'd like to see test results if any exist, displaying what reliability effect M4 ramps have on other barrel lengths. They were not intended to be super long range man killers. First, the M4 barrel and non-M4 upper isnt likely to cause issues, but due to the relief cut on an M4-spec upper, there will be a gap that works like an edge that most definitely can snag the bullet and stub the round. The upper is designed to have two levels of top rails for mounting of night vision in front of scopes. You have the option of barrel type, thread, fluting, finish type and to add a match bolt. For someone who is new at trying to understand feed ramps it helps to read a couple different explanations. Earlfillmore 13 hr. M4 extension with .350 M4 style feed ramps 11 Degree Target Crown Threaded Muzzle 5/8"x24 TPI Weight: 26.5 ounces Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Another reason is that any commercial receiver and parts makers want to tool up to make upper receivers and barrel extensions, especially when shorter guns are becoming more popular. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. If you aren't 110% comfortable with doing the job, and you do not have all the tools and equipment to do it properly, then have a smith do it for you. If a barrel comes with the feed ramps could I take them off? Backing up a ton: Any and all AR-15 barrel extensions have feed ramps. One of the AR15 engineers under Gene Stoner pretty much said that the M4 isn't a good platform, especially once the gas port erodes a bit. It's best to use rifle/rifle combo or M4/M4. However, I have seen more than a few basement gunsmith hackjobs using a dremel, some Jack Daniels/liquid courage, and an unsteady hand that have made a total, unrepairable mess of the job. However, they do have M4 feed-ramps which is not clone correct. what does it do?? It's best to use rifle/rifle combo or M4/M4. I would only add the feed ramps to the receiver if I had feeding issues, which you should not have. Shorter length equates to much higher pressure in the upper receiver. I just need a little guidance on this and I'm having trouble getting good results from Google. Go back to writing school. BEFORE YOU GO MODIFYING IT, check your headspace.I have a Gibbz upper in my junk drawer because the upper -- for some reason -- wouldn't allow a perfectly good bolt (as checked by Criterion) to headspace correctly on a Criterion barrel, with the bolt installed in the carrier. The good idea is that the round, presented at a lower plane, will contact other lower feed ramps and go right on in. This includes M4 feed ramps, barrel nut, front sight tower and sight post, and -28 threads for a muzzle device. M4 feed ramps are not an original design, they were designed for the M4 In fact, the . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If it's happening regularly, check the magazines you are using for serviceability. Editors Note: This article was originally published in January of 2019. Mil-spec is good for the masses, and if you want the job done it is a great start. The rifle receiver, doesn't have ramps on the receiver, they are only cut into the barrel. If your magazines are set up correctly, and the feed lip edges polished smooth, each round fed from the magazine will go directly into the chamber. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. So like ORD says it is entirely 100% possible and plenty of people do it, but I would rather not do any work to this perfect barrel. I got my help from this thread, and thank you again to ORD. If I was concerned with precision, I would seek out parts from well-known gun makers and customizers Baer comes to mind, Hart barrels, etc etc. I wont buy a barrel that isnt a wylde 223 556 but Im only now noticing. is the m4 feedramp common in barrel extensions? I am having a tough time finding an in-stock barrel (18 or 20 incher) with a rifle extension on it. Again, youll find plenty of videos on spooling up hand grinders to remedy feed ramp and ejection port issues with these larger cartridges, but I strongly suggest going factory-done aftermarket. Everything that you have on your side to make any weapons more reliable and work when it absolutely needs to is a plus. I have seen it done many, MANY times and if done right, it works/functions 100% without issue. I think my question would be why rifle receiver+M4 barrel is just "ok" rather than "good", unless the point is that in a carbine-gas gun M4 ramps are just considered an improvement over no ramps. Looking For Bear Creek Arsenal Barrels Review? This can lead to a rare but odd situation; barrel and receiver mismatch. All Rights Reserved. As a result, the factory machined M4 feed ramps on the receiver are hard coat anodized which adds significant strength to the aluminum. Interesting reading. He had more to say and added some more engineer and gun designer speak too. Bullets tend to bump, snag, and stub on these guns. The M4, and the CAR-15, before it have had similar problems like the ones you mentioned. Metal cases ammunition such as Wolf through an M4 clone? So the engineers lowered the feed rampa into the receiver. I'm assuming that you only need the ramps from one or the other. With a larger diameter case body sitting down in the magazine, the tip of the bullet sits lower in relation to the chamber/bore centerline than with a .223-size round. I found the article very informative. If it was some flat top + 16" FSB barrel id just swap upper/barrel, but this is a little more challenging to do that with. Add 3% to the total cost for credit card purchases. If you ever have an issue, then look at getting a correct barrel for the upper. Somwhere in the 1990s I believe, Colt designed the M4 feed ramps, where they took some of the material out of the upper receiver, cut two little ramps in it and then cut the ramps in the barrel extention a little further forward. I built the upper using a Mega upper with a Compass Lake 18" barrel. Its fine to use an M4 Barrel with a non-N4 (rifle) upper but if you have the barrel already is much simpler to just buy a M-4 upper and just replace the upper the barrel is harder to build..I have even cut ramps on a rifle upper and it really wasent needed That is before I knew better.Then I guncoted the ramps before I found out about Aluminum Black treatment. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. No need to alter the upper. That is what I tell people when they try to convince me that they need a stainless barrel instead of chrome-moly. BUT if you find someone to grind your feed ramps and they do a good job, post it up and let us know. "C" stamp and CAGE code available. I use it for hunting dogs only. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Do you have an AR barrel or feed ramp tip? I have done the same, protect the Barrel extension with a layer of electrical tape and carefully file or Dremel the ramps into the aluminum receiver. I don't quite trust myself to give it a go, but if that's all there is to it I'm hoping they can do it for a reasonable price. Factory said its fine . It's an interesting question. I can assure you that most mods that deviate from the original design aren't 100% reliable. JavaScript is disabled. I think you will find that the tip of the bullet clears the M4 cuts in the upper receiver by a wide margin. The only one I found is LaRue's upper, but it won't work with the hand guard I'm using (Geissele MKIII). FWIW one of my rifles has M4 feed ramps on the barrel and no M4 feed ramps on the upper and it has functioned just fine. Full M4 feed ramps start on the upper and continue onto the barrel extension. This space is for pictures of "retro" Stoner rifles and completed or partial retro AR-15 builds, as well as discussions about either. But, as with anything else, this work can go too far. I'd get jams from bullets hitting the back of the upper so I took a small round file and made the M4 ramps in the upper. Whether they materialize or not depends on the direction of the mismatch. Good call. True, which is why they're not even needed in semi autos. To measure just where the round makes impact on the feed ramps, I did not use any sort of micrometer to measure. In military situations, it is advantageous for rifles to function with damaged, worn, or less than ideally serviceable magazines. Seems like it should work to me, but be a real challenge to keep clean and be damned ugly to boot. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. Upper Receiver, A4, Flat Top, USGI, Numbered, AR-Stoner Upper Receiver Stripped AR-15 A3 Flat-Top Matte, Black River Tactical 16 Cold Hammer Forged Optimum Barrel Accuracy Evaluation. If your upper isn't showing signs of bullets rubbing on the aluminum under the barrel extension, you should be good with M4 ramps. The barrel extension and the receiver both have to have the cuts. Went back to the sellers website and found I was not the only one with problems. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. The manufacturer said they had sold hundreds of barrels with out problems reported. I think you will find that the tip of the bullet clears the M4 cuts in the upper receiver by a wide margin. Some, me included, have said that the M4 ramps are a help to some of the larger-diameter cartridges in use, such as 6.5 Grendel or .22 Nosler. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Barrel is medium SPR profiled barrel, threaded with a 1/2-28 thread for the AE brakes and collar. Thanks! Machined from 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel and feature a QPQ corrosion resistant finish and QPQ coated M4 feed ramp extension. By the time you made it work you spent more time, money, and effort than if you just bought a new barrel or upper. Instead, I just loaded up each mag with two rounds, and pushed the rounds forward by hand until the tip of . In case My barrel is rifle ramp it won't be so bad after all. While I've got everything apart, I'm thinking I just want to put an M4 barrel extension on. I have looked and looked and looked. When I function tested it the first time with live half-jacketed rounds I had the worst FTF jam I have ever experienced. pm me at BOG or PG, or get in touch with my number 09177542777 if you're interested. I can probably get the upper reciever first. Damaged Ak front end Barrel in Trunnion with or without sight bases. Is one better than the other? It's going to a gunsmith to be shortened and rethreaded anyways, can they just grind/polish the feed ramps to match or is it more involved than that? The photo shows the dents and the bolt lugs line up perfectly. I am glad to know that I need to look for changes in design and the differences in the A2 and A4 feed ramp / rails. again, Thanks. The A2's are pretty reliable guns, but trashed mags can cause them to have malfunctions also. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. A forum community dedicated to drag racing drivers and enthusiasts. i have the rifle barrel. Barrels are Douglas 416 stainless steel with 1-7 twist with M4 feed ramps Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Some suggest taking a grinder to the extension area. My factory JP CTR-02 has the appearance of the bottom right picture in the post above, M4 barrel extension in a rifle receiver, and there is not a mark on the aluminum under the barrel extension. Any body need a anchor for a very small boat? Does it make a big difference? All we do is dremmel it to match - we dont remove it and grind to any specific angle. so im thinking I might as well just get the unramp upper. So, an M4 feed ramp includes the barrel extension and the upper. We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. You have a rifle barrel. Shopping with us is absolutely safe - you never have to worry about credit card safety when shopping here Share your latest AR build or photos from the range with #RangeDayFriday for a chance to win a new firearm! An upper without feed ramps can be used with a barrel that has them as the majority of the ramp is on the barrel extension. Semi autos run slower than full autos. By Also, barrel life is relative. 308 m5 using m4 feed ramps, which I belive are for the smaller round like. If I have a rifle ramp upper and get the barrel later and coincidentally will have an m4 ramp. The difference between standard feed ramps and M4 ramps is easy to see. Other selections are available for upper, bolt and carrier, charging handle, handguards, flash hiders, and gas blocks. The M4 receiver feed ramps are cut at a steeper angle and, as a result, extend down into the receiver wall. I have a 723 build (w/ C7 upper) and a 727 build (A2 upper) that use 14.5" Colt M4 barrels. 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